tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2046663689477874544.post1661678550796633853..comments2023-11-05T05:01:58.563-05:00Comments on Ward Six: Is Postmodernism Over?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2046663689477874544.post-71069138148898017082008-11-13T15:45:00.000-05:002008-11-13T15:45:00.000-05:00I just heard Howard Dean say on the radio that Oba...I just heard Howard Dean say on the radio that Obama's going to show that the old labels "liberal" and "conservative" are not useful anymore. I'm okay with that. There comes a point when a certain structure for looking at ideas becomes a hindrance to ideas, rather than a help.<BR/><BR/>Though I will always be a pinko.rmellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03133206908895131438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2046663689477874544.post-78832023899396910762008-11-13T14:58:00.000-05:002008-11-13T14:58:00.000-05:00Yeah, alicia, I think you're right, the good thing...Yeah, alicia, I think you're right, the good thing about the NYRB is that it offers a forum to the kind of analytical geekiness Smith is fond of. And I'm glad for its existence. But, as a writer, it's the last way I want to see writing. It kinda sucks the mystery out of the process, for me.<BR/><BR/>I do think there are signs that multiculturalism, as a saleable label, is on its way out. It is now, quite rightfully, an entrenched part of the cultural establishment, and has been the norm in academia for a long time, and so is no longer new. And postmodernism is ubiquitous and pretty well understood, conceptually, even by people who aren't, and never were, graduate students. And of course "lyrical realism" has always been the main vehicle for literary mediocrity. So if there is a good change coming, it's that the labels themselves are becoming passe. I hope so, because I think the strength of American literature has always been its preoccupation with individual suffering and enterprise, in the face of groups and institutions.<BR/><BR/>Hell, a black guy was just elected president. I mean, this is certainly not the end of racism, but it does suggest that, for the first time in forever, Americans can say that individual excellence is officially more important than group identity, be it ethnic, stylistic, or regional. Hooray for that!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2046663689477874544.post-58478207965774238912008-11-13T12:35:00.000-05:002008-11-13T12:35:00.000-05:00To me, James Woods had a better argument for reali...To me, James Woods had a better argument for realism, which just could be because he wrote it in more plain language and haven't read much literary theory, nor ever will. I had always thought Aqua Team Hunger Force on the Cartoon Network was postmodern. <BR/><BR/>I am very interested in what will be the newest style. Besides, it'll all be the same; it'll all be writing. Yah, I see voice becoming extraordinarily important in the future, less so because of any need to feel the authenticity of a narrative self, but rather the need to listen to the story this guy at work is telling though you know he's full of it and it's all probably partially true, but it's a good story. It captures you.<BR/><BR/>On Rhian's point, this point is why multiculturalism is a labeler in the States (a well-written point by Smith)- "For though these novels seem far apart, their authors are curiously similar. Similar age, similar class, one went to Oxford, the other Cambridge, both are by now a part of the publishing mainstream, share a fondness for cricket, and are subject to a typically British class/race anxiety that has left its residue. A flashback-inclined Freudian might conjure up the image of two brilliant young men, straight out of college, both eager to write the Novel of the Future, who discover, to their great dismay, that the authenticity baton (which is, of course, entirely phony) has been passed on. Passed to women, to those of color, to people of different sexualities, to people from far-off, war-torn places. The frustrated sense of having come to the authenticity party exactly a century late!"<BR/><BR/>Does Zadie Smith write for the NYRB, because she's like "I want to write a developed, analytical, exploratory book review of length?" The NYRB and Bookforum really offer in depth reviews that aren't found in the dailies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2046663689477874544.post-92050279504433201982008-11-13T12:01:00.000-05:002008-11-13T12:01:00.000-05:00"If it's done well, it's a good story, and if it's..."If it's done well, it's a good story, and if it's done poorly, it isn't."<BR/><BR/>Exactly. What bothered me so much about postmodernism when it was first presented to me in the 90s was not the authors or novels themselves which were being called "postmodern", but the approach being taken in literary criticism of all writing. It wasn't enough to talk about the story that was there. You had to build some kind of meta-narrative framework to superimpose over it.AChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15077988599467518893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2046663689477874544.post-68134266108143963232008-11-12T18:37:00.000-05:002008-11-12T18:37:00.000-05:00Right, these divisions are just not useful to me.....Right, these divisions are just not useful to me...the older I get, the less interested I become in movements, stylistic pigeonholes, and manifestos in general. It's all about personality for me, about voice. A story might well be cobbled together out of found texts, or arranged weirdly on the page, or be obsessed with its own creation, and maybe some people would call that postmodernism, but honestly, I just don't give a crap. If it's done well, it's a good story, and if it's done poorly, it isn't.<BR/><BR/>Preoccupation with labels like "lyrical realism" doesn't help anyone, I don't think. And the moment you think you're part of a school of writing is the moment your sucking has begun.<BR/><BR/>That said, let me reiterate, I love Zadie Smith. But the analytical framework of that review left me cold.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2046663689477874544.post-53786685852692588002008-11-12T15:45:00.000-05:002008-11-12T15:45:00.000-05:00Every time I opened Netherland, the page seemed to...Every time I opened Netherland, the page seemed to be about cricket. Suddenly I was in my grandparents' cigar-smoke-filled lounge in suburban Cardiff, slightly drunk on sherry and shrimp puffs. Eeek!<BR/><BR/>I honestly don't understand the Realism vs. Not-Realism war. It might be a British thing, because I haven't read much from American critics on the topic. Could it be something as silly as class? Could Realism be code for Oxford, Cambridge, leather bindings, fox hunting, etc?<BR/><BR/>American literature doesn't distinguish between realism and non, so much. In the US, gender divides us (women's lit vs Serious Writing) to a greater degree...rmellishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03133206908895131438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2046663689477874544.post-51822026022683310572008-11-12T13:55:00.000-05:002008-11-12T13:55:00.000-05:00Smith made a pretty convincing case for the exhaus...Smith made a pretty convincing case for the exhaustion of "lyrical realism," though. I think you're right that there are infinite paths for the novel, but there's certainly a type of novel I'd like to see a lot less of, and Netherland sounds like the apotheosis of that type of novel. It's hard to describe what binds together the novels I'm tired of--"lyrical realism" sounds too vague--but I think Smith and McCarthy are onto something with the idea of engineered authenticity. Maybe self-consciousness is so woven into our lives by now that it's banal to focus on it ad nauseam at the same time that it's objectionable to try and do an end-run around it by creating seemingly "authentic" characters like the cricket guy in Netherland.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2046663689477874544.post-39111002186864088652008-11-12T10:49:00.000-05:002008-11-12T10:49:00.000-05:00Perhaps the new thing could be called The Former P...Perhaps the new thing could be called The Former Postmodernism, or The Modernism Formerly Known as Post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2046663689477874544.post-25528288553705806412008-11-12T09:53:00.000-05:002008-11-12T09:53:00.000-05:00Postmodernism was a big factor in my decision to l...Postmodernism was a big factor in my decision to leave school (as an English Lit major, at least). It never seemed real to me. In fact, I was crushed when they told me there was really nothing after modernism but mind games. <BR/><BR/>I would be very happy to forget all about postmodernism and move on to something that deserves a name of it's own. And if I hear that MC Lars song on the radio once more I'm going to puke.AChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15077988599467518893noreply@blogger.com